This interview was originally published in e-flux journal no. 86 (Nov. 2017) and has not been published in hard copy., 2017

A wide-ranging discussion between two ex-Yugoslavs, both from Croatia, both students (in different generations) at Zagreb University, and both in de facto exile, about where we are now, and how to understand the situation of “post-communism,” transiting to destruction of people. Much SF is also discussed as an early-warning system.